Opettajat Australiassa

Aloittaja tuuve, syyskuu 02, 2003, 20:37

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0 Jäsenet ja 1 Vieras katselee tätä aihetta.

Jaaks

MiKaK :D

Eipa ole juurikaan ongelma Aussi kouluissa, koska on uniformupakko :cool:

Vaikka se onkin nykyaan melko joustava sikali, etta on vaihtoehtoja erilaisista, mutta kuitenkin yhteista varia ja kuosia olevista vaatekerroista.

mette


Jaaks

Entas tama opiskelu rauhan takaamisesta

Classrooms hit by high airport noise
Peter Morley
13sep03

CANNON Hill residents living south of Brisbane Airport's main runway have to put up with more noise, more often from aircraft, than most Brisbane residents.


Although the nearest homes are 6.7km from the runway, they are sometimes subjected to more than 80 decibels of noise ? a level that is intrusive, according to QUT senior lecturer Andy Tan.

And the Airservices Australia noise monitoring system located in the grounds of the Cannon Hill Kindergarten found that during the June quarter there were 31 occasions a day when overhead planes pushed the meter beyond 70dB.

"Normally in a classroom situation the noise level would be around 40dB," Mr Tan said.

"Seventy decibels is actually quite noisy for a community which is usually in the 55 to 60 bracket.

"When you get to 80 and above it is quite intrusive.

"A guide is that if you are standing beside a motor mower it will be putting out about 67dB."

Airservices Australia does year-round monitoring at five sites around Brisbane Airport, the subject of a new master plan and second runway proposal that it claims will lead to quieter skies for residents.

At least 55,000 homes are subjected to noise intrusion, according to Ban Aircraft Over Residential Brisbane which doubts the BAC's forecasts about noise reduction.

The BAC says it will be achieved through a combination of new-generation, quieter aircraft and a traffic system that will let most flights take off and land over Moreton Bay.

But Premier Peter Beattie is not convinced.

He said yesterday that he was worried the proposed runway might simply shift some of the problem from south of the Brisbane River to northside suburbs.

"Depending on the winds they are going to take off in certain conditions that could mean more noise for the northern suburbs," Mr Beattie said.

The Airport Services report on its tracking stations shows the second-noisiest suburb is Tingalpa, where the monitoring device is on a 6m-high pole at the state school.

On average, there were 17 occasions a day when the 70dB level was passed and there were a few occasions when the measurement reached 80dB.

At Bulimba, the daily incidence of 70dB was about five and at Kedron, the site of the fourth monitoring station, it was two.

The quietest tracking station site was at Nudgee Beach, near the outer end of the airport's cross runway which usually carries propeller driven aircraft although it can take some jets in an emergency.

Airservices Australia also tracks all flights into and out of Brisbane, an around-the-clock airport unlike Sydney which has a late night curfew.

In the June quarter, there were 33,478 movements of which 24,183 involved jet aircraft. Nearly 1400 jets were operating at night ? between 11pm and 6am.

Jet movements were down on last year, reflecting the reduction of international flights because of the SARS crisis.

privacy            © Queensland Newspapers

Jaaks

Ja sitten tama...Very, Very Sad :(:(:(

The trouble with bullies
FRANCES WHITING
14sep03

Kick me, punch me, call me names
Bite me, hurt me again and again
Laugh at me, point at me, you know I deserve it
Pinch me, jab me, you know I've earned it
Ignore me, look away, leave when I walk into the room
If I were you, I'd hate me too
Don't care what you do any more
Mum says not to worry, but she doesn't know
What happens when I leave the front door.


CRAIG was 14 when he wrote this poem ? and many, many others ? about the impact bullying was having on his life.

A talented and creative boy, he was also athletic and well liked among his peers up until Year 9 when, his mother Dianne says, "everything changed".

"We don't exactly know what happened but as far as we can tell, another boy in his class took a real dislike to him, almost overnight," she said.

"This fellow was quite popular and powerful in the school group and slowly he somehow managed to turn everyone against Craig, even his good friends who had liked him before."

At 15, Craig attempted suicide but was found by his mother and revived by paramedics.

"Up until then we only knew Craig was having problems at school, but after that we realised that it was much, much more serious.

"I felt ? I still feel ? very guilty that we didn't take the bullying more seriously. But we just didn't realise how much of a problem it had become."

Kids Help Line, however, is all too aware of the serious impact bullying is having on our children. The organisation's latest statistics show that bullying is the third most common reason kids younger than 15 phone the service.

In 2002, Kids Help Line received almost 6000 calls from young people across Australia seeking advice about bullying, and the organisation agrees with current research that found one in six Australian children is bullied on some level each week.

Volunteer counsellors who talk to kids every day about bullying say that, in general, females are more likely to be the target of indirect bullying tactics such as exclusion and sniggering, while males are more likely to be threatened and bullied physically.

Across both sexes, however, those in the 10-to-14 age group are at the most risk, accounting for 76 per cent of all calls to the help line about bullying. Five-to-nine-year-olds account for 15 per cent of calls, and 15-to-18-year-olds account for the remaining 9 per cent.

"These figures suggest that most bullying occurs in late primary school, or in the first years of secondary school, which has major implications for parents and educators of children aged between 10 and 14," a Kids Help Line spokeswoman said.

The help line organisation has found that the most common reasons kids are bullied are ethnicity, resistance to pressure to behave in a certain way, physical differences, sexual orientation, socio-economic background, being new, or being a high achiever.

Aimee Jade Jenkinson (pictured) certainly matched the statistics. A 14-year-old high achiever, A-grade student and Australian silver medallist in tae kwon do, Aimee took her life on August 10 after being bullied on a three-day school camp.

In letters found after her death, Aimee named her tormenters and described how she was driven to despair by a group of girls who taunted and teased her about, of all things, her achievements at tae kwon do.

Her death, 41 hours after returning home from the camp organised by her school, Melbourne's Thomas Carr College, rocked the school and wider community ? and angered many parents who demanded to know why the school had not intervened earlier.

But the school said it had heard no cry for help from the distressed girl, and Aimee's father, Larry Jenkinson, pleaded for calm at his daughter's funeral, saying: "We don't blame the school." Which school was involved was unimportant ? "You could transport what happened into any school ? that's the issue."

It seems Larry Jenkinson is right, and parents hoping to protect their children from bullying by sending them to expensive, private schools where there is often an expectation that bad behaviour will not be tolerated, could be hoping in vain.

In Queensland, several private schools have reached out-of-court settlements with former and present students who were, or are, the victims of bullying.

One exclusive Brisbane girls school is believed to have paid out several former students, while a prominent Brisbane boys school paid a student $50,000 in an out-of- court settlement.

And there will be more claims to come, warns lawyer John Hamilton, of Brisbane-based McInnes Wilson.

"There is no doubt in my mind that the next major problem in education, the next big issue, will be bullying and what's being done about it," Mr Hamilton said.

"Parents are becoming better informed and more savvy about what is happening to their kids in schools and if they don't like what they see, if they feel they have run out of options, if they feel the school itself has not done what it should, then the next step is increasingly becoming to take the legal avenue.

"This has massive implications, given that these claims can be retrospective and, according to the Criminal Code, assault does not actually have to be physical ? so these claims can be criminal or civil."

The claims are across the board, resulting from what is believed to be inaction at both state and private schools.

"There is no difference between the two, a good school is a good school, be it private or state. A good principal is a good principal," Mr Hamilton said.

"Some are simply better at implementing the zero tolerance programs at their schools than others."

Education Queensland says its state schools are highly diligent in addressing bullying and behaviour management issues.

"We do have a zero tolerance for bullying protocol, which means that every school must implement a policy to address bullying and harassment," a spokesman said.

"Each school must adhere to Education Queensland guidelines and policies on bullying, harassment and other forms of discrimination.

"In January, Education Minister Anna Bligh launched the Acting Against Bullying program, which was developed by Griffith University. It uses drama and peer teaching to help address these issues."

Education Queensland also launched its Bullying. No Way! website in June last year and the site has attracted 90,000 visits.

The site's popularity shows how much such a service is needed ? indeed, type the word "bullying" into a search engine on the Internet, and there are hundreds of such sites visited by thousands of desperate kids around the world every day.

Despite Education Queensland's belief that the site, as well as its complementary Bullying. No Way! kits, its 300 behaviour management support staff working in classrooms across the state, and its Fair Go anti-bullying programs are successfully addressing the problem, some parents believe schools are not doing enough to help their kids.

They say they're angry and frustrated at what they perceive to be a lack of uniformity across schools when dealing with the problem of bullying.

In March, Brisbane mother-of-six Wendy Grace formed CAVIS ? Community Against Violence In Schools, an organisation comprised of concerned parents and citizens.

"I was really tired of my kids coming home with these stories of the sorts of things that were going on in school, and it seemed to me that often the focus was more on the bully than the kids affected by the bullying," Ms Grace said.

"They were losing important learning time, while the teachers had to concentrate on these so-called behaviour management cases.

"That was one issue. The other is that while schools supposedly have this zero tolerance against bullying, it's up to each principal and each school exactly how that is implemented.

"While some seem to really be able to make a difference, others seem to turn a blind eye to what's going on.

"'We're also worried that teachers have less and less rights when dealing with these kids and the apparent lack of consequence for the offending students.

"Sometimes it seems the bullies have more rights than anyone else."

Ms Grace says the organisation has received hundreds of calls from around the state.

"I suppose we get on average between 30 to 40 calls a week and some of the stories we hear are heartbreaking.

"We've had parents telling us of kids being stabbed, being sexually assaulted, being told by other kids to kill themselves because they're losers. You wouldn't believe some of the things we hear.

"But mostly we are hearing a lot of frustration with the current system and a growing sense of community outrage over this issue."

So the CAVIS organisation is lobbying schools, community groups, the Government and Education Queensland to set clear and uniform boundaries of behaviour in schools and to review all behaviour policy documents in relation to violent behaviour.

"This is something the minister and the education department and schools really need to address," Mrs Grace said. "Make no mistake, this is a huge issue and more and more parents are demanding answers."

Director of Parenting and Family Support at the University of Queensland, clinical psychologist Matt Sanders, believes some of those answers, at least, are to be found within the victims of bullying themselves.

"I think bullying has always been around, but we are so much more aware of the damage it does these days," Professor Sanders said.

"There are also more ways to do it ? we now have bullying via e-mail, text messaging, and digital cameras.

"Now, understandably, parents do get very upset about it.

"And it is easy to jump to decisions like removing the child who is being bullied from the school, or removing the bully from the school.

"But this is not the solution to the problem, it just moves the problem somewhere else.

"As hard as it can be to accept, we sometimes also need to look at the child who is being bullied. You have to see if they are, often completely unintentionally, actually provocateurs of the behaviour.

"Are they showing off? Are they grabbing things that don't belong to them? Do they know how to behave in different social interactions?

"Sometimes kids will behave in a very socially unskilled manner in an attempt to be part of the group.

"I'm not saying this is always the case ? often a kid is bullied through no fault of his own ? but we do need to look at it case-by-case and develop appropriate strategies for each."

"This is often where a clinical psychologist can help.

"While it's tempting to march up to a school on behalf of your child, the message they are then getting is, 'You have a problem and I'm going to fix it', whereas it may be more appropriate to find out why it is happening, and to help the child develop an appropriate way of dealing with it."

But Professor Sanders also believes that the importance of a loving family cannot be underestimated.

"Even if a child is getting a tough time at school, if the message he is getting at home is that he is liked, he is loved, there are people who think he is great, if he is succeeding at other things outside of the school grounds, then his self-esteem and his ability to cope with what's going on in school should be better."

Craig's mum Dianne agrees that one of the best defences against bullying can be a loving, supportive family.

"We feel lucky that our child managed to survive bullying, but we nearly lost him," she said.

"And what we learnt is just how important it is to keep that open communication. Let them know they are loved and supported, no matter what. I didn't know the extent of Craig's misery but maybe if I did, I could have helped him earlier.

"I think the main thing is to keep talking to your kids, keep letting them know they can always confide in you.

"Sometimes, without even knowing it, you're all they've got."

mette

Jaaks :D

Surullista luettavaa :(

Olen kyllä sitä mieltä, että vika on kiusaajan korvien välissä, eikä kiusatun...

As hard   as it can be to accept, we sometimes also need to look at the child who i being bullied. You have to see if  they are , often completely unintentionally actually provocateurs of the behaviour.

Jaaks

Mette :D

Olen taysin samaa mielta.  Tuo kopioimasi laushadus on mielestani taysin "out of context" tassa jutussa ja provosointi on tosi huono tekosyy :mad:

Jaaks

Jatkoa Victoriasta (eilisen Herald Sun)

Teacher stress takes record toll
By Jeremy Calvert
September 15, 2003

MORE than 20 years of teaching days were lost last year as teachers on stress leave cost Victoria a record $9 million.

 
Rising teacher stress has been blamed for violent clashes with parents.
 
 
The crushing burden of stress was revealed as about 25,000 teachers - half the state's workforce - prepared to walk out of schools on Wednesday for the first time in five years.

Preschools, primary and secondary schools and TAFE classes will be affected by the strike in support of a 30 per cent wage rise and action to avert a feared teacher shortage.

But the State Government said the pay claim would cost $2.7 billion, and the strike would only disadvantage students.

New figures show the WorkCover stress bill for teachers outstrips claims in all other sectors of the state's public service - including police and nurses.

A total of 132 teachers lodged new stress claims in 2001-02, up from 109 the previous year, resulting in 7050 lost working days.

Teachers were absent for an average of 53 days.

And a significant number of teachers were still on extended stress leave from previous years.

Rising teacher stress has been blamed on violent clashes with parents, abusive students, increased workloads and an ageing workforce.

The figures, obtained by the Herald Sun under Freedom of Information laws, show the school stress crisis has grown by an average of $2 million a year since 1999.

The stress bill for teachers now surpasses that of nurses by $5 million and costs nearly $500,000 more than police stress claims.

Female primary school teachers of an average age of 50 were the single biggest group of claimants in 2001-02, making 36 individual claims.

They were closely followed by male secondary school teachers of the same age.

Australian Education Union state secretary Mary Bluett said the problem was far from under control.

"At the moment it is very much left to individual schools to deal with, and that system clearly isn't working," Ms Bluett said.

"It is not just the personal costs to the teacher and their family but the cost to the public purse that demands a more proactive approach by the Department of Education."

Ms Bluett said the department continued to turn a blind eye, even when individual schools were notorious for generating obscene levels of stress claims.

She said a culture of workplace bullying and poor leadership were often as much a problem as confrontations with parents or students.

Figures since 1997 show the same teacher groups over-represented in stress claims each year.

But the average age has steadily increased, raising concerns that an ageing workforce could see claims rocket in coming years.

The president of the Secondary Principals Association, Andrew Blair, said older teachers were having difficulties dealing with the values of students who were often increasingly confrontational.

"For the first time in the history of Victorian education, the average age of secondary teachers is older than the parents of the kids they teach," he said.

Fred Ackerman, president of the Primary Principals Association, blamed growing workloads and the cumulative effect of dealing with challenging students.

Psychologist Sue Hoskings said teachers rarely made claims until desperate, resulting in long periods of leave and cost blowouts.

She said the problem was compounded by the department's failure to help make returning to the workplace easier.

Ms Hoskings said early intervention was essential when symptoms such as withdrawal, loss of concentration, irritability and over-reaction started to show.

A department spokesman said there was no dramatic growth in the problem and many initiatives were in place to address it, including a new medical advisory service to support the health and wellbeing of staff at risk, and three free counselling sessions and mediation services for department employees.

Parents Victoria president Gail McHardy said teachers who felt helpless and frustrated had to take time out.

"That impacts on students and increases the demand for relieving teachers," she said. "Students will often complain about the number of teachers they have had in one semester due to these absences."
Herald Sun

Jaaks

Vuorossa NSW (eilisen Daily Telegraph)

Students taught in corridors
By Bruce McDougall
September 15, 2003

THOUSANDS of state school students are being forced to do lessons in corridors and playgrounds because of a critical shortage of teachers.

And one Hunter Valley high school had to abandon 40 classes because there were no teachers available to supervise them.

A survey of 250 schools in NSW over a week found 700 classes went without their teachers for a day.

In the Lake Macquarie area a school of 700 was forced to split seven classes and abandon nine programs in a week.

The students are split up and sent to other classes, the overflow accommodated in corridors, wet areas or the school grounds.

In primary schools these students often spend the day "colouring in" or doing other light work, but the overflows have become so common that one school in Sydney's southwest has devised a "Teacher Away Book" that provides more regular work.

Principals slam the arrangements as "babysitting", saying the shortage has reached crisis level, while angry parents claim their children are suffering and have called on Education Minister Andrew Refshauge to appoint more permanent teachers and boost the supply of available casuals.

The Department of Education and Training has launched a range of initiatives - including a centralised call centre to locate casual staff and "flying squads" of teachers to cover absences - to overcome shortages. A spokesman said yesterday the strategies were working and there had been a "significant improvement" in locating casual teachers.

"The placement of casuals has never been better but that doesn't mean there are no problems," he said. In its survey, the principals' forum found the worst affected areas were Campbelltown, Fairfield, Liverpool and Mt Druitt as well as Maitland and Taree.

Other problem areas included Bankstown, Blacktown, Granville, Parramatta, Penrith and Ryde, Tamworth, Orange, Moree, Wagga Wagga, Lake Macquarie, Griffith, the Central Coast, Broken Hill and Batemans Bay.

Some classes have had five or six teachers as schools struggle to plug gaps left by sick, maternity or long service leave.

Parent Rosie Farnham, president of the school council at Governor Philip King Primary in Sydney's southwest, said two classes were disrupted - the one that was split and the one the students joined. "Programs suffer too, such as library, physical education and ESL [English as a Second Language]," she said.

"It's very traumatic for the kids," P and C president Tracey Wallekers said.

The Daily Telegraph

Tiina

Kyllä on ollut surullista luettavaa. Täytyy kovasti nyt vain toivoa, että saan luvat opettaa, kun Australiaan pääsen. Eihän yksi opettaja paljon tilannetta muuta, mutta itse nauttisin todella paljon opettamisesta ja edes yksi luokka saisi open.

Pitäkää peukut pystyssä, please ;)

-Tiina

Jaaks

Tiina :D


Hengessa ollaan mukana :D:D:D
Kylla se siita jarjestyy ja kuten varmaan huomaatkin, opettajista on valtava pula.

Cheers
Jaaks

Tiina

Kiitos Jaaks:D
:XXXX sille!!!!! Marraskuussa asiat selviää...

Tiina

Jaaks

Tiina :D

Mita osavaltiota olet ajatellut :??
Jos QLD, ota yhteytta ennenkuin tulet :D

Jaaks

Tiina

Jaaks,
Mitään tarkkoja suunnitelmia en ole tehnyt, jottei pääse turhaan pettymään. Mutta QLD, NSW ja ACTn "opetushallituksien" kautta oon saanut positiivista palautetta - ovat pyytäneet ottamaan yhteyttä.:D

Palailen asiaan:)
- Tiina

Jaaks

Tiina :D

Siis positiivinen palaute tarkoittaa myonteista vastausta :D:D:D

Just Go for it :cool:  

Jos saan, niin voinko kysya mista on kiinni :??

Miksi et tule jo, ja ala opettaa lapsia kunnolla :??

Tiina

Jaaks,
Ei ihan voi vielä myönteisestä vastauksesta puhua. Koulutus ja työkokemusta kun löytyy, ovat vaikuttaneet HYVIN lupaavalta ja ACTssä rehtorit ovat vakuutelleet sijaisien tarvetta. Uskon kaiken kiikastavan loppujen lopuksi siitä, että olen vielä Suomessa... :nuttu:
Mutta serkkutyttö menee naimisiin Etelä-Afrikassa ja lupauduin käydä siellä ensin. Tulen niin pian kuin mahdollista Ausseihin ja vihdoinkin voin viipyä pitempään. Kahden viime vuoden aikana olen käynyt lomailemassa/tutustumassa neljästi ja nyt mikään ei "pakota" palaamaan Suomeen. :XXXX

-Tiina

Jaaks

Tiina :D

No, nahdaan sitten Etela-Afrikan jalkeen :XXXX:XXXX:XXXX

mette


riaapa

Mielenkiintoinen artikkeli, Mette. Jännä että siinä mainittiin Steiner ja Montessori, koska kun olen maininnut kyseiset koulut aussituttavilleni, eivät he ole oikein tienneet mistä on kyse, ja vaikeahan sitä on selittääkään... Montessorin on sentään joku tiennyt, mutta Steinerista eivät olleet kuulleetkaan.

Jaksan aina ylpeillä sillä että meillä ei Suomessa ole kalliita yksityisiä kouluja, vaan upeat koulutukselliset saavutuksemme ovat täysin mahdollisia myös julkisissa kouluissa. Sitä on monen ulkomaalaisen vaikea uskoa. Että jossain on todellakin yhtäläiset mahdollisuudet...

En kylläkään ihmettele sitä jos yksityisissä kouluissa onkin paremmat tulokset (millä sitä tuloksellisuutta sitten mitataankaan?), jos opettajille pystytään tarjoamaan parempaa palkkaa ja luvataan pienemmät opetusryhmät ja ajantasaiset materiaalit ja välineet jne, täytyy kutsumuksen olla aika voimakas että valitsee julkisen koulun. On täysin luonnollista että "paremmat" opettajat valikoituvat yksityiskouluihin.

Kuinka te Australiassa asuvat olette kokeneet nämä katoliset koulut ja katoliset colleget? Onko kukaan laittanut lapsiaan sellaiseen? Kiinnostaa ihan vaan luterilaisesta näkökulmasta, sillä kaikki aussituttuni ovat joko katolisia tai ateisteja. Ja katoliseltahan ei saa kriittistä mielipidettä omasta kirkostaan tai mistään mitä se tekee, ja taas ateistit tuppaavat olemaan liiankin kriittisiä...

Kiinnostava tuo katolisen kirkon asema yhteiskunnassa. Se kun on mielestäni huomattavampi kuin luterilaisen kirkon asema esim. Suomessa (esimerkkinä mm. nämä katoliset koulut ja myös debutant ball, joka kuulemma on alkujaan jokin katolinen perinne). Vai miten te aussisuomalaiset olette sen kokeneet?

Riina.
Riina

mette

Riina :D

Australiassa on  montessori-ja steinerkouluja.

http://www.montessoribooks.com.au/qland.htm
http://www.steiner-australia.org/qld/list.html


Tuon Brisbane`s Child-magazinen saan lapseni päiväkodista ja laitoinkin tuohon linkin sinne , onpa siellä keskustelupalstakin ;Natural Born Bullies,Intimidating teachers...
http://www.brisbaneschild.com.au/brisbaneschild/article_democracy.asp

Meille eräs tuttu, jonka lapset kävivät catholic private school kertoi, että vaatimuksena  oli jomman kumman vanhemman olevan katolinen :??

Hän myös sanoi arvostavansa ko. koulun  uskonnollista opetusta, lapset saavat sivistystä ja oppivat rukoilemaan, sillä hän ei itse osaa sen enempää kuin miehensäkään rukoilla englanniksi, vaikka muutoin puhuvatkin englantia sujuvasti.

Tiimi10

:cool:

Mulla on sellainen käsitys, että täällä Australiassa kuulijat on aika tolerantteja sen suhteen, että englanninkielessä on pieniä puutteita.  Luulisin, että tuossa rukoilemisessa on sama juttu. Vastaanottava taho ehkä yrittää ymmärtää, vaikka tuotos ei olisikaan kovin sujuvaa englantia.  ;)

mette

Tiimi,

En osannut ilmeisestikään laittaa sanoja oikein, sillä ymmärsit "hieman "väärin. Tässä ei mielestäni ole toleraalisuuden kanssa MITÄÄN tekemistä. Kuka nyt muutenkaan kuuntelisi kirkossa miten osaako joku varmasti rukoilla oikein. Rukoillahan voi miten haluaa.

Mutta  selvennykseksi aloitetaan alusta.
Moniko meistä olisi oppinut rukoilemaan, jos ei koulussa sitä olisi opetettu?  Ystäväni ,joka puolalainen, miehensä italialainen ,asuneet täällä kolmattakymmentä vuotta. Kirkolliset palvelut ovat saaneet omalla kielellään.

Osallistuin jokin aika sitten Australiassa asuvien ulkosuomalaisten kansallisidentiettetti-kyselyyn , jota teki Western Australiassa asuva suomalainen.
Laitan tähän vain jokusen kysymyksen ko.kaavakkeista.
Kuulutko suomalaiseen seurakuntaan, jos niin mihin?
Käytkö suomalaisen seurakunnan jumalanpalveluksissa? Jos käyt, niin mikä näissä tilaisuuksissa on sinulle tärkeintä esim. sanan kuuleminen, muiden suomalaisten tapaaminen , suomalaisen kielen kuuleminen vai joku muu?
Kun suomalaiseen jumalanpalvelukseen ei ole mahdollisuutta , käytkö englannin-tai muunkielisessä kirkossa? Miksi/Miksi et?

Selvityksen mukaan luterilaisuus on osa suomalaista identiteettiä.

[Editoitu 20/9/03 - mette]

Jaaks

Mette :D

You've got to be joking :D:D:D

"Selvityksen mukaan luterilaisuus on osa suomalaista identiteettiä"

Mista sais kasiinsa tuon tutkimuksen ja sen tekijan :nuttu::nuttu::nuttu:

mette

Suomalaiset ja kirkko
-Luterilaiseen kirkkoon kuului viime vuonna 84,6% Suomen väkiluvusta.


Tutkija , teologian tohtori Kati Niemelä Kirkon tutkimuskeskuksesta on tutkinut suomalaisten uskonnollisuutta.T änä vuonna hän teki kahden muun tutkijan kanssa laajan selvityksen Moderni kirkkokkansa-suomalaisten uskonnollisuus uudella vuosituhannella.
Selvityksen mukaan luterilaisuus on osa suomalaista identiteettiä pikemmin kuin jonkinlainen uskonilmaus. Vahvaa yhteyttä selitetään muun muuassa sillä, että luterilaisuus erotti suomalaiset selkeästi slaaveista aikoinaan venäläisvallan alla.

Suomalaisten suuri enemmistö kuuluu kirkkoon. Silti me käymme kirkossa ani harvoin, emmekä oikein ole varmoja mihin uskomme.

Ovatpa suomalaiset aika uskonnollista kansaa kansaa, ihmetteli eräs ulkomaalainen, kun hän keväällä seurasi uuden eduskunnan marssia jumalanpalvelukseen Helsingin Tuomiokirkkoon.
Häntä hämmästytti, että valtionpäivät avataan ja päätetään uskonnollisilla menoilla. Tai että presidentti antaa vuosittain julistuksen neljästä kiitos-, katumus-ja rukouspäivästä.
Onpa uskovaista kansaa, ulkomaalainen jatkoi kun kuuli vielä, että lähes yhdeksän kymmenestä suomalaisesta kuuluu vapaaehtoisesti johonkin uskonnolliseen yhteisöön ja maksaa siitä vuosittain ainakin yhden etelänmatkan verran kirkollisveroja. Kymmenyksensä maksavat yritykset ja yhdistyksetkin yhteisöveron kautta.
Ulkomaalaisesta oli hämmentävää kuulla, että melkein jokainen nuori ikäluokastaan käy aikanaan rippikoulun ja konfirmoidaan. Melkein jokainen! Tai että lukuvuoden alussa lapsia siunataan koulutielle. Tai että sotilasvala vannotaan kirkossa, ja varusmiehet veisaavat eri käänteissä Martti Lutherin virttä Jumala ompi linnamme.
Jo tämä tapahtuisi vaikka islamilaisessa maassa, puhuttaisiin kiihkouskovaisesta kansasta, ulkomaalainen totesi.
Tässä vaiheessa suomalainen alkaa selittää, että ei, ei , ei .Eihän tässä olla uskovaisia ollenkaan. Me olemme tapakristittyjä. Kirkkoon kuuluminen on vain tapa, tosin kehdosta hautaan.

Mutta nyt taas mentiin taas opettaja-aiheessa sivuun, joten tämä tästä osaltani. Minä ,jonka kirkossakäynnit jäävät niihin häät, kastajaiset, konfirmaatio, hautajaiset.

Uskonto ei ollut lempiaineeni koulussa,taas Urul tykkäsi siitä,tykkäsi historiasta jota uskonto sille olikin ja ristikoita ratkoessani uskonnollisisssa nimissä hän osaa auttaa.

Suomessa yrityksetkin maksavat yhteisöveroa(kirkollisveroa)  riippumatta uskonnollisesta vakaumuksestasi.J os ei itse kuuluisikaan kirkkoon, niin yrityksesi kuuluu :??

Jaaks

Mette :D

Nythan aukesi oikein kunnon "matopurkki" :D

"luterilaisuus erotti suomalaiset selkeästi slaaveista aikoinaan venäläisvallan alla"

Mista lahtien slaavilaisuus on ollut uskonto :??  Ja kuinka monta uskontoa on ollut edustettuna slaavilaisten kansojen keskuudessa luterilaisuudesta-ortodokseihin, muslimeihin etc...... :??

Suomalaisten suuri enemmistö kuuluu kirkkoon:D

Syntymastaan asti pakolla eika vapaaehtoisesti :D

Onpa uskovaista kansaa,ulkomaalainen jatkoi,kun kuuli vielä,että lähes yhdeksän kymmenestä suomalaisesta kuuluu vapaaehtoisesti johonkin uskonnolliseen yhteisöön ja maksaa siitä vuosittain ainakin yhden etelänmatkan verran kirkollisveroja.Kymmenyksensä maksavat yritykset ja yhdistyksetkin yhteisöveron kautta.

Onko vaihto ehtoa :??  On , mutta taytyy sitten erota kirkosta ja joutua ehka yhteison halveksimaksi :??

Me olemme tapakristittyjä.Kirkkoon kuuluminen on vain tapa,tosin kehdosta hautaan

:D:D:D:D:D:D

Häntä hämmästytti,että valtionpäivät avataan ja päätetään uskonnollisilla menoilla

Meilla Australiassa on ns Westminster Hallitusmuoto eli sama kuin englannissa (ja kaikissa nykyisissa ja entisissa alamaissa ellei sitten ole jo Republic) ja kaikissa muissa valtioissa on ylahuone ja alahuone paitsi Queenslandissa (Ylahuone taalla lopetettiin 1924).

Meidan jokainen eduskunnan istuntopaiva alkaa With a Prayer:D

Eika ole edes "Valtion Kirkkoa" :??

Mistahan "ulkomailta" tama ihmettelija oikein oli :??:??

[Edited on 20/9/03 by Jaaks]

mette

Jaaks :D

Eikös slaavit ole ortodokseja ja katolisia?

Tuosta pakolla kuulumisesta kirkkoon...hmh..veljeni ainakin erosi lukioaikanaan , kun tuli uskonnonopen kanssa erimielisyyttä.

Nyt kirkosta voi erota myös postitse ja ero tulee voimaan heti.

Jaaks

Mette :D

Slaavit = "Slavic peoples of East Europe, including the Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and a few other unknown tribes"  Eli siis uskontoja loytyy joka lahtoon :??

Ja oikeastaan Slaavit oli tunnettuja kristinuskoa edeltavasta "Pagan" ajasta

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0845519.html

Tiimi10

Mette Daaahling,

ÄLÄ OTA MUN VIISASTELUJA NIIN VAKAVASTI.  Ymmärsin ihan  hyvin, mitä tarkoitit. En vaan voinut olla näsäviisastelematta, kun mietin (luterilaisena) että rukous on puhetta Jumalalle, joten luulisi vastaanottavan tahon tajuavan vähän epäselvempääkin puhetta. Ymmärsin siis myös että katolisen perinteen mukaan pitää osata Ave Mariat ja muut. Ja olen mä itsekin opetellut vaihto-oppilaana ulkoa Our Father who art in heaven...

Pientä kevennystä:

http://www.helsinki-hs.net/thisishelsinki/toolong.html

Jaaks

Tiimi 10 :D

Mita on "luterilainen kasvatus" :??:??

Se, etta mitaan ei saa anteeksi vaan tuomitaan "taivaan porteilla" :??:??

Katolisen periatteen mukaan mika tahansa kay - osaat sitten "Ave Marian" tai et, ja jos tunnustat "syntisi" saat ne anteeksi :o  Ei tarvitse edes osata tehda ristinmerkkia, kunhan sydamesi on asiassa mukana :god:

Ala nyt ymmarra vaarin Tiimi 10, en ole itse mikaan uskovainen, vaan arvostan muiden ihmisten uskomuksia ja annan heille vapauden valita omat "tiensa" :D:D:D

Tiimi10

Hei Jaaks,  tunge nyt ne madot... takas purkkiin! :nuttu:

Se oli multa vaan kevyt vitsiläppä ilman mitään teologista syvämerkitystä. :XXXX

Jaaks

Tiimi 10 :D

Jos sina aiheutat jonkun uuden keskusteluaiheen ja se ei sinua valttamatta kiinnosta :??  niin pysy poissa siita ja juttele muualla :D:D:D  OK !!!

mette

LainaaOriginally posted by Jaaks
Mette :D




Onko vaihto ehtoa :??  On , mutta taytyy sitten erota kirkosta ja joutua ehka yhteison halveksimaksi :??

Jaaks :D

Ei välttämättä.Presidenttimme Tarja Halonen ei kuulu kirkkoon.

Jaaks

Mette :D

Siis Presidenttimme Halonen ei ole koskaan kuulunutkaan kirkkoon :??

mette

Jaaks :D

Tuota en tiennytkään :??  Muistan vaan miten siitä oli  kovaa polemiikkia presidenttivaalien alla, kun ei p-ehdokas kuulu kirkkoon ja taisin tehdä omat johtopäätökseni vai mistä .

Jaaks

Mette :D

Enpahan tieda :??
Taytyisi kait ottaa selvaa, vai:??

Ehka joku naista meidan Suomessa olevista tietavista voisi tehda sen :??

Eihan Suomen presidentti kuitenkaan ole mikaan "Valtion Kirkon" paamies/nainen niinkuin esimerkiksi QE Englannissa, vai onko :??

mette

Jaaks :D

Ei ole,mutta ...kristinusko on syvällä kansakuntamme identiteetissä ...SORRY

Suomalainen arvokeskustelu on keskustelua arvokeskustelun tarpeellisuudesta

http://www.esaimaa.fi/arkisto/vanhat/2000/02/06/alueuutiset/juttu3/sivu.html

Jospa seuraavaksi puhuttaisiin Presidentti Martti Ahtisaaresta, että pysyttäisiin itse topicissa hänen toimiessa opettajanakin joskus :D

Jaaks

Mette :D

Mitas Ahtisaaresta :??:??  Olen valmis :D:D:D

Milka

Tasta presidentista valtion kirkon paamiehena. Suomessa valtion ja kirkon paamies erotettiin toisistaan vasta muutama vuosi sitten, jolloin presidentin virkaoikeuksia kavennettiin. Sita ennen presidentti nimitti piispat yms.

Jaaks

Milka :D

Kiitos tuosta tiedosta :god:

Muistelinkin, etta Suomessa presidentti on (eli siis oli) seka kirkon, etta armeijan "ylipaallikko":o

mette

Kiitos Milka :D

Presidentillä ei kirkossa virallista asemaa
Tasavallan presidentillä ei maaliskuun alusta lähtien ole enää virallista asemaa kirkossa. Presidentin näkyvin valtaoikeus, piispojen nimittäminen virkoihinsa, poistuu tuolloin kirkkolain muutoksen myötä. Uuden lain mukaan piispaksi nimitetään vaalin voittaja. Valtakirjan antaa hiippakunnan tuomiokapituli.

Lain muutos poistaa mahdollisuuden nimittää piispaksi ehdokkaiden joukosta joku muu kuin vaalissa eniten ääniä saanut. Käytännössä tätä oikeutta eivät presidentit ole käyttäneet presidentti Kekkosen jälkeen.

Kirkon lainsäädännössä presidentillä on sama asema kuin muidenkin Suomen lakien suhteen. Hän vahvistaa kirkkolain, joka säätelee kirkon hallintoa ja järjestystä. Lain valmistelee muista laeista poiketen kirkolliskokous, minkä jälkeen eduskunta hyväksyy sen. Presidentti voi vain lykätä lain täytäntöönpanoa jättämällä sen vahvistamatta.

Tasavallan presidentti ei ole luterilaisen kirkon päämies. Hänen ei lain mukaan myöskään tarvitse kuulua mihinkään kirkko- tai uskontokuntaan. Viime presidentinvaalien alla käydyssä keskustelussa useimmat piispat totesivat mielipiteenään, ettei presidentin ole välttämätöntä kuulua luterilaiseen kirkkoon.

Tarja Halonen antaa eduskunnalle presidentin juhlallisen vakuutuksen 1.3.2000. Virkaanastujaisten juhlallisuuksiin ei kuulu jumalanpalvelus. (KT 25.2.2000 kh)

Jaaks

Mette :D

Kiitos :god: , mutta silti "...kristinusko on syvällä kansakuntamme identiteetissä ..."

:??